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Everything posted by silenceseeker

  1. Yes, I never tire of hearing Shamanic Dream. I think whatever type of music helps you to move is okay. I tend to like music without words as it's less emotionally engaging and it doesn't distract me. I personally don't use any flute music but that's just me. However, I know a lot of people use this flute music, it's New Age, not Tibetan, I believe it uses Native American flutes but not sure: Coyote Oldman Tear Of The Moon https://youtu.be/HxLRkYrqU7I
  2. Hi Amy, You actually can learn to journey without using drums or rattles. But starting out, it helps to have something to work with. Here are a couple of songs that you might find useful: An oldie but goodie
  3. Yes. That was a major turning point in the tradition. Up until the persecution, the Makers were similar to other traditions at that time; they had ceremonies and tools and weren't hidden. But in order to survive persecution, they realized they needed to drastically alter how the tradition was practiced, they recognized that they needed to find a way to operate without drawing attention to themselves. So, they collaborated and worked to find a new way of working. They eliminated anything that could identify them as shamans and to do that, they learned how to work with energy at its most basic level, before it became something. So they looked at what energy was working in the tools they used, the ceremonies they performed and found where the energy behind it all was and learned how to connect with it without using any tools or having to utter certain words or perform certain movements out of necessity. In addition, they also decided to only pass the knowledge down through family lines for added security. Through these alterations to their practices, they lived lives as farmers, teachers, priests, etc. -really anything - and yet continued to work as shamans. They worked through using Voice, through moving energy directly and through tapping into their connection to the elements among many other things. They worked through all the usual energies but it was couched as teaching or preaching or maybe being an herbal healer, whatever it was safe to be existing in society. And it's been that way until Gary decided it was time to come out of the background and be Makers in the world again.
  4. I checked with Gary (Niteshad), creator of this site and the direct connection through familial lines to the maker tradition. The tradition, until Gary created this site, has been kept under the radar and passed down only through family members. He said that he doesn't think there is a connection to Norse Heathenism but he never really looked that deeply into the origins of the tradition. He said it never really mattered to him, we live now and not in the past. However, I do understand the interest, context can be revealing and helpful at times. It may have been part of the beginning of the tradition but what the tradition evolved into is mostly a result of the pressure of inquisitions and pressure to eliminate the old ways by the church. No offense taken. There is no dogma or holy books for Makers either. It's a formerly oral tradition and the history is written in the energy of the words. As you learn the tradition, more and more unfolds for you, it's really quite an ingenious way to preserve knowledge, in my opinion - no books needed and more information than could ever be contained on pages is there to be tapped into if you know how to look for it. I might go looking for a Norse connection and see what there is but I don't think origins mattered much to the old makers either. And... the makers are shamans, if you look at how we work, it's not a religion with gods. They have never called themselves shamans, only "Makers," but if you look at what is taught and what we do, it fits with shamanism best. I have gotten to just calling us Makers as there are so many preconceptions about what a shaman is.
  5. Some people want to be immortal. At one time, I thought that would have been cool to be able to exist beyond time but am not so sure now, it seems quite lonely. As far as themes in past lives, as far as the cosmology goes, there would always be a somewhat fresh start. Not all of your past lives were village healers and not all of your energy now is a village healer. But maybe one of those past village healers had a very strong intent to persevere into the future or maybe your particular makeup now has a strong village healer intent that seeks to connect with knowledge from the past. That being said, there does seem to be an amalgam effect happening over thousands of years of like attracting like in people's predilections. Over time, people's individual lives - as they pass through death and new configurations are created in a new individual (that has never existed before exactly), you can see that many people feel drawn to be something, an artist, farmer or healer that doesn't match their current lives family background. They often feel like they are a mismatch. It would be an interesting journey to take to try and take in that process of life and re-birth happening over millennia to see if/what human energy is evolving into.
  6. Technically, it was the region of Gaul, which I think overlaps parts for France and Germany? It's definitely possible there was some influence at some point as it is an old tradition. The 'modern' form of it happened around 600 years ago, roughly. I'm not sure about Ginnungagap being the energy pool, from the description I read, it sounds more like what we would call the abyss. The energy pool is basically the human mold, each species has a mold and an energy pool where individuals return to. And yes, DNA does create a thread through all of it as parents DNA/energy gets transferred to children but other energy comes in as well.
  7. The Maker cosmology does include reincarnation but it's different than what most people think of. Basically, when you die, your energy will return to the human energy pool but you won't maintain your complete self; your energy will come unbound and dissipate into 'threads.' These threads that were once you will meld with all the other threads of people in the human energy pool This pool is where new life comes from. There is no 'design' or lessons that need to be learned, etc. similar to other reincarnation cosmologies. Think of a big ladle, dipping into the pool of threads, all mixing together and pulling out the energy of a human that is being born. It's a bit of a crap shoot for what threads you get although you can often get larger chunks of former people's energy. If you find yourself drawn to a particular era in history or culture for now rational reason, it could be that you have threads from someone from that time mixed in your total energy. Now, some shamans have found ways to keep their energy fully intact when they enter the pool and will be born again, maintaining their energetic makeup but that's rare and not easy to accomplish. I would say that is true for Makers as well, although we might call it getting beyond ego and mind. What is the Norse Heathen view on reincarnation?
  8. Hailsa, Rodulf! Welcome to our public forum! Shamanscave.com and the public and private forums are dedicated to the teaching of the Maker tradition. Everyone is welcome to post here no matter what path you are on. And I personally love to learn about traditions and knowledge that I don't know much about. I think all the pagan/heathen and shamanic traditions walk similar paths and so it's always interesting to me when people share knowledge about their particular paths. The makers are western shamans that have their origins in Europe. Shamanscave was created from an American lineage that came over from Europe a few hundred years ago. But we have makers that live and practice in Europe, Australia and New Zealand. Congratulations on your retirement, I hope you find what you are looking for in your preparing to transition to the Other World (Hopefully a long time from now. ) Lorrie
  9. Thanks for explaining further, it's all good. I wish I was able to help you further with identifying those energies but my knowledge of forces outside this tradition is limited.
  10. Hi FinWanderer, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you are working with something purely psychological. I was sort of indirectly approaching that when you see things a(and I do believe you that it is something working/haunting against you), that it's important to be detached from your emotions so that you can more clearly see what you are dealing with. I guess i'm just trying to explain that makers usually won't talk in terms of the classic traits of entities as determined over time by different traditions, we try to look at each case as new and fresh without those filters of explanation. You are very welcome to participate here, another thing about makers is that each of us practices our own version of the tradition, there are no rules, just tools. We also have a maker/teacher that is from Finland who may be able to give you more insight. He may chime in on this thread. So I want to assure you that I don't think you are delusional at all. My intent was to hopefully point out that if you are able to see energy clearly, without detachment, - reading it at a level before it 'becomes' a domovol or whatever else, then you will be able to understand without outside guidance, exactly what you are dealing with, you will simply 'see' and 'know.' But of course, getting other's opinions and sharing is also very helpful and welcome too, we need that as humans. And you are welcome to challenge us here, we're not easily offended.
  11. First of all, welcome FinWanderer; This site is a Maker site - a western shamanic tradition with its roots originating in Europe hundreds of years ago but worldwide now. Sometimes, I feel almost dull as a maker attempting to describe our take on things people from other traditions and practices describe from their experiences. And that's because in the maker tradition, we break everything down into its most basic energetic form. So for example the domovol - we would not treat such an entity, if we came across one based purely on what we've been told about them. Meaning, we would look at the domovol and basically see its energetic construct, what is causing that energy to take the form of a domovol? Well, it seems that your background in Norse history and paganism might be 'coloring' this energy and causing it to form in your awareness as a domovol. So what does that 'mean?' If you go back to that memory and feel for the emotions, feel for what else besides the imagery was there for you, basically deconstruct that memory and image if you can, you will get an insight to what it was and why you were interacting with it. So I feel that basically, a little bit of personal life history, a little bit of collective cultural history + something in you + something or some kind of energy that you encountered is how it might break down. The trick is to understand why that energy interacted with you in the way it did and that will teach you something about yourself and the energy you interacted with. Sorry if it sounds so academic but understanding it all at this level will give you the freedom to choose what you want to do with it - work with it or walk away from it.
  12. I really don't know much about specific types of stones and their qualities. Makers tend to look for generic rocks from the place they live or where they are working. When I am looking for a rock to work with, I search for one that I connect with first and then after I've decided to work with it, then I try to find out what kind it is. That being said, we makers do appreciate the different qualities of different types of rocks, I just don't know a lot about different stones personally. I love working with granite and basalt because they have been common where I live and I've had good experiences working with them.
  13. Thank you for elaborating more on Emma, it's helped me get a better picture of your relationship with her. I find the Discord call you had with Emma really interesting. It's pretty unusual that I hear of people moving and connecting with spirits through technology. I know it happens but for some reason, I personally haven't run across it very often, so it's interesting. It's definitely something I would like to explore more. Regarding the scrying I mentioned. I actually didn't have any thoughts behind my suggestion, it just popped into my head while reading your post so I decided to mention it which is why I found it really interesting that what happened with Emma on Discord, well that fits the definition of scrying in my book, you're just using a non-traditional tool for it. The makers use mirrors and water to scrye typically. If you ever feel like giving it a try, there is a practice posted on the public site about setting it up: https://www.shamanscave.com/practices/mirror-scrying My thoughts on Emma's intent on connecting to you through Discord went two directions: a) she simply wanted to connect and found a way b) she wants to tell you something, possibly something important. I bet that you could probably go back through the conversation you had with her and feel for her intent coming across. As you said, communication across the barrier does get blurred but Intent is something that can cross the barrier just fine. So even though you may not have been able to make out the exact words she said ( and I think that was probably your mind/reason trying to put an image and logic on to your energetic communication ), I think you can probably get her intent, the gist of what she was trying to say to you. I also think she will show up again but maybe through a different application. I'm also thinking the conversation may get clarified in dreaming with your stone and chain rune tool. So I have one more question for now on Emma, I'm wondering if you have a goal for this connection with her; what do you see or want it to develop into? Is there now plan, just simply wait and see or do you want to be able to communicate more directly with her in the future? Or do you want her to have more of a physically presence in this world? Thanks for sharing your journey.
  14. Hi Varg, Welcome back from your vacation. I enjoy reading your progress notes on this download journey you are on. I realize that you may just be posting here as a way to share something with others that you know understand where you are coming from and not looking for answers or insights, so please just ignore my questions if you aren't interested in answering them. But I do have some questions if you are open to answering. I'm wondering why this entity has chosen to live with you in the first place. I imagine that it wants to connect with humans and it's found a connection with you. And maybe there is something similar you share with it that drew it to you. I'm wondering why she chooses horror flicks to communicate things like its once physical appearance? Like, why not choose a musical or historical era drama that was close to her era or whatever? Is is the simple visceral nature of horror films? Or do you think she is trying to convey an experience that happened to her? Have you ever tried mirror scrying or any other kind of scrying to open up lines of communication with her and possibly see her appearance, etc.? Thanks, Lorrie
  15. Hi Kanon, Welcome, I don't think we have email notifications activated for forum posts, you can follow a thread but it won't send a message once it's been replied to. The only thing that sends email messages out is when you send a personal message, I think. The makers are shamans by definition of what we do, which is work with energy beyond the 'normal world' for knowledge and to affect this world. We also work with energy in the everyday world as it is all connected, there really is only an imagined separation. The makers are different from other shamanic traditions in that we don't rely on rituals, power objects or consulting guides as are main way of working. Makers call themselves contemporary shamans because the tradition seeks to evolve alongside the culture its immersed in. So, even though this tradition is very old, the practices fit well into modern life. Makers are similar to all shamanic traditions though in that the first step in becoming a shaman is to self-heal. I think peastacey mentioned the recap. or Recapitulation practice, it's usually the starting point for self-healing for makers. The recapitulation is not just for shamans though, it can be used by anyone to recover energy that's tied up in your past. We start people off by focusing on the 'bad' things in their past, the practice basically recovers the negative emotional energy tied up in memories and leaves you with 'just' a memory and no triggers or reliving of emotional trauma whenever you remember a traumatic or unhappy event. There are other practices as well for self -healing. As I said, self-healing practices can be used by people, even if they have no intentions of ever becoming a shaman. They can deliver you to a place where you are reconnected with who you were when you came into this world and set you back on a path to creating the life you want to live.
  16. silenceseeker


    Hi Maria! I remember you, it has been a long time! I'm sorry you are going through this situation. Please let me take a little time to look at it and assess it. As you may remember, Makers are very clear that no one has a right to your energy but you. Let's see what we can do to help return you to that place. Lorrie
  17. Thanks for sharing, Varg, I enjoy hearing about your own personal experiences and connection with shamanism. I am curious as to what titles "Mary" has picked out to watch. Also, just wanted to comment as a fellow shaman, I see that you understand the importance of knowing 'what is mine and what isn't'. It's at the basis of maker self-healing and reclaiming personal power - to understand one's self so well that you know where you end and other things begin sounds simple but it's not an easy task to accomplish. Looking forward to the beginning and end stories. L
  18. Well, it's sounding more like your mannequin came to you without anything attached. Your yearning for a daughter could very well have created an opening for 'something' to take hold in her. It's possible that through some of the shamanic work you do, you created an opportunity for possession to happen as well. And although when we desire something and create an opening or otherwise invite something in, even thought we may wish for something that is completely benign, we can't completely control what we get when we make those openings. It sounds like you did pretty good with it though, except for the occasional acts of jealousy or somewhat malicious behavior, considering you could have ended up with Chucky, lol. As far as why you see her moving but the camera doesn't, I really don't have a good answer other than cameras record actual physical movements but not energetic ones except on occasion. I'm thinking that it is your own perception seeing her energy expressed as physical movement, still very 'real' but not the type that gets recorded on film. If she starts to move around your house from one spot to another, I would think you would be able to catch something on camera - hopefully. Thanks for sharing, it's an interesting story.
  19. Hi again, I took a look at it and from what I saw, it looks like your mannequin may have come to you with and energy attached. I also feel that over the years, you have become attached to her and have probably fed some of your energy to her, which further developed her presence. The question I have is, 'how did you come about acquiring her?' It feels like there is a story there as well and maybe a clue to how the original energy got attached. The aspect of the mannequin that is malicious, the cutting and hostile energy does not feel like 'yours.' It is perhaps being protective and does not seem to be too extreme. So, can you tell me a little more about how you came to have the mannequin in your possession? Thanks
  20. Of course, Vargtid, it's very understandable that you've never heard of the makers, which you are probably learning why from the older posts but our tradition has been off the radar for about 600 years now and prior to that, it looked different, it was more like traditional shamanism. Understood on your commitment, Makers have a commitment to the tradition too but I'm glad you are open to learning more, I think it helps us all to keep learning and sharing between traditions. If you have a site that you could share about your tradition, I would appreciate it although it might not stay due to forum rules/restrictions on posts leading off this forum. Let me know if you have any questions. Lorrie
  21. Just going to jump in here with my opinion. Although we Makers agree that there are general symbols and ways of interpreting energetic communication that often transcribe the same meaning across different individual human experiences with them, we've found that people are so individual in how they process information through their own window of perception that we encourage people to create their own catalog of meaning of their experiences. So, one symbol may mean something for you and something else for me. We may both see the same woman in the white dress walking slowly up the hill yet pull different meaning from it. Or, we may see different imagery with the same meaning. You may see a woman in a white dress walking slowly uphill and I may see a man dressed as a preacher struggling to pull a cart uphill or through mud and yet we might receive the same meaning from it based on our personal history and energetic makeup. That description is really oversimplifying it but I hope you see where I'm going with it. So in the maker tradition, which most of the people here on this forum are part of, we don't have a huge shared catalogue of interpretational images or symbols that we reference, although we do have some. Instead, we strive to create our own personal libraries of meaning as they tend to be more accurate in the long run.
  22. Thanks for sharing, Vargtid, it's very interesting and seems to have a lot of different things going on energetically. I want to take a little time to collect my thoughts on it and will post back but wanted you to know it has been read.
  23. I don't think you have to be completely substance or ally free of any sort when you recap. I never worried about having coffee while recapping. In fact, since it was a regular habit, to not have it would make me feel off and distracted. Coffee/tea/cigarettes/cbd, I think they would all be fine to have in your system while you recap. but I would draw the line at stronger substances like alcohol, marijuana etc. I would be careful using allies that claim to have the power to end addiction. I don't know much about Iboga but it seems to have a lot of risks associated with its use. My feeling on Iboga or other substances promising healing from addiction, is that a) you can do it without them and b) they probably can help but I think once you aren't using them, it would be harder not to slip back into your old ways than if you did it without them. You can find out what you've agreed to by using the recap. exercise. Find when you first used the substance, if that is fuzzy or it was just on a whim then find when you first felt like you were 'hooked' on it. Recap your life at that time, why did you choose to try the drug? What did it do for you that helped you? That is where the agreement was made, it did something - took away pain - gave you something - energy - a sense of well being - and you agreed to take it so it would keep doing that for you. And yes, you can renegotiate. It is an agreement, it is doing something for you and you are keeping it alive by using it. Think of how much more marijuana is in the world today than 50 years ago, it has done well. Even though both parties are involved in the agreement, you really have the upper hand because you are the one that controls when and how much you use it. So you can renegotiate by threatening to stop or you can set a specific use/intent for use that is less than you are using now if you want to ease back or you can set a baseline that you would be happy with. So you will have to be able to resist the temptation to use it outside your new plan. So, if you say, I will use "x' once a week on Saturdays for relaxation, then you will have to forgo using it to relax the other days or whatever schedule you come up with but then on Saturday, you should allow yourself to use 'x' and keep your word/agreement - don't renege because you feel like you could skip it, it's about keeping the new agreement . Just like you said, the allies backed off when you told them you would use them for life, they usually will back off when you set a time and place and keep your word, they will back off on the in between times. A key thing to note here is that you are switching back from 'needing' to use them to 'wanting' to use them. I don't think this would work for all substances, especially the newer ones that seem to be very insidious. If you think of allies as any other living thing, they want to live and procreate. They give you some insight into the universe that is harder to do without them and you help them procreate. Ayahuasca used to be a very obscure plant ally. Now there are whole tourist industries built around giving people an experience with it, it also has procreated well. Besides the agreement aspect of working with an ally, makers don't use psychedelics for growth and insight into life and energetic realms. When you take a substance like Ayahuasca, it does deliver you a vision, but you are essentially looking at life through its eyes and not purely your own. Makers prefer to see clearly without the looking through the shades of others' visions. It's not because we don't trust them, there are many beneficial allies out there, it's just that we want to stand on our own 'two square feet of space' and engage with the world from our space and not from someone or something else's. So the problem makers have with unnecessary drug use is not about getting looked down on, we are already looked down on for being different . It's simply that we want all our energy at our disposal and engaging with unnecessary drugs takes energy to maintain and we work so hard to regain the energy that we do have.
  24. Hi UnknownPatterns, First of all, welcome! You've asked a number of questions, I'm going to try an answer two of them: 1) My long term goal is getting rid of them completely. ("them"=allies/various substances) 2) I know how to function with the drugs in my life, and if I can keep it up for just 1-3 years I'll likely be in a place where it's way easier to cut back. What's a shamanistic perspective on this? Can substances and their allies be of some use to me in my situation.? The short answer to 1) is, "probably not completely." Generally, for most allies, once you've hooked up with them, it's a permanent connection. However, you can control that connection/relationship to the degree that it is essentially not an issue and you are basically rid of it, in the sense of it being a strong influence on your life. The best way to gain that level of control over your allies is to "simply" heal yourself - the ally is in your life because there was something in need of healing in your energy that caused you to reach out for help. So, it's simple but not necessarily easy. It will require doing a lot of self-healing work where you recover energy that you've got tied up in connections to possibly the past trauma and illness you mentioned. It can take some time to work through all that but it is definitely worth the effort as you will recover your energy and it is a permanent healing, not just a patch. The short answer to 2) is, "maybe". Shamans do use allies and work with them for various purposes. The key is that there is an 'agreement' with the allies and it needs to be done consciously in a way that you know what you will be giving in this arrangement and you know what you will be receiving for giving up part of your energy. There is a cost to your energy when working with allies. So, if you entered an agreement with an ally when you were in a state of despair or in a moment of weakness, it's not ideal. Another thing to consider is that allies don't want to give up the hold they have on your energy. So do you think in 1-3 years when you're ready, that the ally isn't going to try and convince you to continue? So from a shamanic perspective, allies can and are used to get to certain desired ends. But they are not for everyone and one needs to carefully consider the cost before one enters an agreement with an ally. Since you are already in agreement with certain substance allies, your best course of action is to reduce your dependence or sense of need on them to a level that is something you can live with. And again, to do this will require self-healing, for makers, that is the recapitulation process- recovering energy tied up in memory, recovering past intents, stalking the self - understanding who you are and what makes you the way you are.
  25. Hello Dreamz, You are in the right place, there are many mentors here, lots of people who are seeking freedom to live a life of their own choosing. We teach the maker tradition here, which has lived apart but 'in' society for hundreds of years. Below are a couple links that show the current beginner classes being offered this coming session. The best part is that you don't need to travel, you can do this remotely. If you have any questions about them, let me know. https://www.shamanscave.com/ https://www.shamanscave.com/classes/online-classes
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